[WED]Browns of Wedmore
Stephen L. Brown
wedmore@lists.tutton.org
Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:39:41 -0500
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C26594.75402B20
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi again Tim,
Yes we seem to be in agreement regarding the ancestry of the =
James Wall and Hannah Popham that you detailed , however I have Hannah =
Popham born 1792 at Nyland , baptized 20 Oct 1792 as marrying Benjamin =
Bunn in 1816! Please see 1851 Wedmore for Hannah Bunn. I am looking for =
another Hannah Popham born about 1795 in order to match her age in the =
Census. The James Wall baptized 1787 would be about 64 not 57 as in the =
Census. Can 64 be misstranscibed as 57? What is needed is their age at =
burial . . do you have anything?
Another thing is they both give their birthplace as Mark. James =
Wall is indicated as a resident of Mark at the time of his marriage to =
Hannah in 1815 and as I have nothing on the father of James Wall that =
married Ann Harvey after the death of his wife in 1798 he might well =
have moved to Mark at that time. Was there another Popham family living =
at Mark in 1790's?
Another dilemma waiting for resolution.
Yours ,=20
Stephen L. Brown
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Tim Curtin=20
To: wedmore@lists.tutton.org=20
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 3:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WED]Browns of Wedmore
Hi Stephen
Great!
You asked (23 Sept 2002) about parents of James Wall and Hannah Popham =
who married in 1815.
James was bap in Wedmore 24 Jan 1787, son of James Wall bap 18 Feb =
1759, who was of Blackford when his wife died; she was Ann Harvey, they =
married in St Mary's Wedmore 29 March 1787; this James was son of John =
Wall bap 8 Nov 1713 and Ruth Chislot bap in Wedmore in 1718. John's =
ancestors include another John who married a Maria Brown in St Mary's in =
1632. Maria's mother was Joan Collins (who must be older than one had =
thought!).
Hannah Popham was bap. in Wedmore in October 1792; her parents were =
Jesse Popham bap 15 June 1771 and of course Sarah Wall bap. Wedmore 22 =
June 1761 (it was in their stars!). Sarah was daughter of Jonathan Wall =
of Sand bapt 1727 and Mary Brown, and Jonathan was son of "my" John Wall =
and Mary Clapp; Mary Brown was daughter of William Brown and Maria =
Reynolds, and Willkam was son of William and Mary Brown, the latter =
William bap 12 Oct 1653 was a son of William Brown bap 14 Nov 1613 and =
Elizabeth of Mudgeley. I place that William as son of John Brown of =
Theale and Margaret Lawrence.
Jesse Popham was son of John Popham and Mary Harvey, with ancestry =
stretching back, always at Westham nr Blackford, to
=20
George Popham bap 1 Jan 1611/2 and Maria Comer (also of Westham) ; =
George was son of William Popham of Westham and Christone Algar; William =
was bap 17 April 1571 son of John Popham and Isabella Thurston.
Interesting that so many of these families were from Blackford side of =
Wedmore
All this from Rev Hervey's registers of course, but compiled into =
families (with much guesswork) and available on my FTM or Gedcom file.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Stephen L. Brown=20
To: wedmore@lists.tutton.org=20
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 5:04 AM
Subject: [WED]Browns of Wedmore
Hi again Fay,
O.K. so I got one out of three . . . LOL. So just to finalise =
things . . it is the George Wall son of Robert Wall and Sarah Clarke =
baptized 12 Jun 1848 that married Eliza Jane Brown. The discrepency in =
their ages in the 1881 Census is not a problem. So here we have another =
example of two brothers marrying two sisters.
I might be able to add a little information on the George Wall =
son of Mark Wall and Ann Gummer that married Louisa Brown. The following =
entry is taken from Mark 1851.
Yarrow=20
WEST Thomas 74 Farmer 14 Acres Mark, Som.=20
Ann 33 Mark, Som.=20
GUMMER Mark Wall son 3 Scholar Mark, Som.=20
WEST Joseph Servant 15 Farm Servant Mark, Som.=20
I interpret this as Ann daughter of Thomas West marries a =
person by the name of Gummer who then dies. She then has an illegitimate =
child christened Mark Wall Gummer whose father is Mark Wall. Entries =
such as this often indicate a woman that has been traduced however in =
this case we know that Mark Wall and Ann Gummer married within a year or =
so and that they had a son George who became the husband of Louisa =
Brown. Mark Wall is the son of James Wall and Hannah also listed in Mark =
1851.
Now there is a marriage at Wedmore on 19 Jan 1815 between =
James Wall a resident of Mark and Hannah Popham. They have a son George =
baptized at Wedmore 7 Feb 1815 whose father James is listed as a farmer =
of Westham. After this entry they dissapear to my knowledge from the =
Wedmore registers. Can we assume that they moved to Mark soon after this =
and named their next son for their new home. I have seen examples of =
this were children are baptized Wookey or Widcombe when the family have =
moved to these communities although it is usually as a second given =
name. It is a great clue sometimes in genealogical work. If this first =
assumption is correct then they are the same James and Hannah Wall in =
Mark 1851. It seems most likely. Who the parents of this James Wall and =
Hannah Popham are I do not know. Some of the Popham people here might =
know the answer.
As to the Mary Tincknell I did find a marriage of one Mary Ann =
Cooper to a Henry Tincknell in Mar 1872.
Also the following entry in 1851 Wedmore at Bagley might shed some =
light.
31=20
WARD Thomas 64 Penioner Ag. Lab Wedmore, Som. B. Wife 47 Wookey=20
COOPER M.A. Daughter 8 Scholar Wedmore, Som.
A rather cryptic entry indicating that a B. married a Cooper =
who died in the late 1840's possibly buried at Wookey. This B. then =
married Thomas Ward. I also found a marriage between a Betsey Read and a =
William Cooper in Jun 1842. I think we can assume that this Betsey Read =
is the B. in the above and that M.A. Cooper is Mary Ann Cooper future =
wife of Henry Tincknell. There is a marriage record at Wedmore in 1828 =
between a Thomas Ward and Sarah Ganfield but no burial record for a =
Sarah Ward. The designation of pensioner almost always means Chelsea =
Pensioner so Sarah could of died and been buried anywhere from Gibralter =
to Calcutta.
In 1881 Wedmore there is a Mary Tincknell age 38 at the home of =
one George Stagg and his wife Sarah. Marys husband is not present but =
she is listed as a sister in law. I know there is someone here at the =
group who specialises in Tincknells whose name escapes me but I believe =
we are looking for a marriage between this George Stagg and a Sarah =
Tincknell. This Sarah Tincknell could well be the daughter of Simon and =
Sarah Tincknell close neighbours of Thomas Ward at Bagley. If they also =
had a son Henry then . . . case closed.
You are correct about so many Somerset people migrating to =
South Wales for work. There is one other Brown family of Wedmore located =
at Whitchurch , Glamorgan in the 1881 Census. The wife Jane and three =
children are at home. The father and another son would seem to be =
visiting Wedmore at the time although the father seems to have avoided =
enumeration. See the Wedmore entry for Alfred Brice. I am sorry to say I =
have no knowledge of these folks.
Finally you did not mention the Ann Wall that married Joseph =
Brown . . . do you have any information on her?
Best wishes Faye and keep up the good work.
Yours,=20
Stephen L. Brown slb2@ix.netcom.com
=20
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C26594.75402B20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Hi again =
Tim,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG> =20
Yes we seem to be in agreement regarding the ancestry of the James Wall =
and=20
Hannah Popham that you detailed , however I have Hannah Popham born 1792 =
at=20
Nyland , baptized 20 Oct 1792 as marrying Benjamin Bunn in 1816! Please =
see 1851=20
Wedmore for Hannah Bunn. I am looking for another Hannah Popham born =
about 1795=20
in order to match her age in the Census. The James Wall baptized =
1787=20
would be about 64 not 57 as in the Census. Can 64 be misstranscibed =
as 57?=20
What is needed is their age at burial . . do you have=20
anything?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG> =20
Another thing is they both give their birthplace as Mark. James Wall is=20
indicated as a resident of Mark at the time of his marriage to Hannah in =
1815=20
and as I have nothing on the father of James Wall that married Ann =
Harvey after=20
the death of his wife in 1798 he might well have moved to Mark at that =
time. Was=20
there another Popham family living at Mark in =
1790's?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG> =20
Another dilemma waiting for resolution.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><STRONG> &n=
bsp; =20
Yours , </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><STRONG> &n=
bsp; =20
Stephen L. Brown</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:tcurtin@austarmetro.com.au"=20
title=3Dtcurtin@austarmetro.com.au>Tim Curtin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:wedmore@lists.tutton.org"=20
title=3Dwedmore@lists.tutton.org>wedmore@lists.tutton.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 26, =
2002 3:33=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [WED]Browns of =
Wedmore</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Stephen</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Great!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You asked (23 Sept 2002) about =
parents of James=20
Wall and Hannah Popham who married in 1815.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>James was bap in Wedmore 24 Jan 1787, =
son of=20
James Wall bap 18 Feb 1759, who was of Blackford when his wife died; =
she was=20
Ann Harvey, they married in St Mary's Wedmore 29 March 1787; this =
James was=20
son of John Wall bap 8 Nov 1713 and Ruth Chislot bap in Wedmore in =
1718.=20
John's ancestors include another John who married a Maria Brown in St =
Mary's=20
in 1632. Maria's mother was Joan Collins (who must be older than one =
had=20
thought!).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hannah Popham was bap. in Wedmore in =
October=20
1792; her parents were Jesse Popham bap 15 June 1771 and of course =
Sarah Wall=20
bap. Wedmore 22 June 1761 (it was in their stars!). Sarah was daughter =
of=20
Jonathan Wall of Sand bapt 1727 and Mary Brown, and Jonathan was son =
of "my"=20
John Wall and Mary Clapp; Mary Brown was daughter of William Brown and =
Maria=20
Reynolds, and Willkam was son of William and Mary Brown, the latter =
William=20
bap 12 Oct 1653 was a son of William Brown bap 14 Nov 1613 and =
Elizabeth of=20
Mudgeley. I place that William as son of John Brown of Theale and =
Margaret=20
Lawrence.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jesse Popham was son of John Popham =
and Mary=20
Harvey, with ancestry stretching back, always at Westham nr Blackford, =
to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>George Popham bap 1 Jan 1611/2 and =
Maria Comer=20
(also of Westham) ; George was son of William Popham of Westham and =
Christone=20
Algar; William was bap 17 April 1571 son of John Popham and =
Isabella=20
Thurston.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Interesting that so many of these =
families were=20
from Blackford side of Wedmore</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>All this from Rev Hervey's registers =
of course,=20
but compiled into families (with much guesswork) and available on my =
FTM or=20
Gedcom file.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:slb2@ix.netcom.com" =
title=3Dslb2@ix.netcom.com>Stephen L.=20
Brown</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:wedmore@lists.tutton.org"=20
title=3Dwedmore@lists.tutton.org>wedmore@lists.tutton.org</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 23, =
2002 5:04=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [WED]Browns of =
Wedmore</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Hi again =
Fay,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG> O.K. so=20
I got one out of three . . . LOL. So just to finalise things . . it =
is the=20
George Wall son of Robert Wall and Sarah Clarke baptized 12 Jun 1848 =
that=20
married Eliza Jane Brown. The discrepency in their ages in the 1881 =
Census=20
is not a problem. So here we have another example of two brothers =
marrying=20
two sisters.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG> I might=20
be able to add a little information on the George Wall son of Mark =
Wall and=20
Ann Gummer that married Louisa Brown. The following entry is taken =
from Mark=20
1851.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Yarrow =
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>WEST Thomas 74 Farmer 14 =
Acres Mark,=20
Som. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Ann 33 Mark, Som.=20
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>GUMMER Mark Wall son 3 =
Scholar Mark,=20
Som. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>WEST Joseph Servant 15 Farm =
Servant=20
Mark, Som. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> =
I=20
interpret this as Ann daughter of Thomas West marries a person by =
the name=20
of Gummer who then dies. She then has an illegitimate child =
christened Mark=20
Wall Gummer whose father is Mark Wall. Entries such as this often =
indicate a=20
woman that has been traduced however in this case we know that Mark =
Wall and=20
Ann Gummer married within a year or so and that they had a son =
George who=20
became the husband of Louisa Brown. Mark Wall is the son of James =
Wall and=20
Hannah also listed in Mark 1851.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG> Now=20
there is a marriage at Wedmore on 19 Jan 1815 between James Wall a =
resident=20
of Mark and Hannah Popham. They have a son George baptized at =
Wedmore 7 Feb=20
1815 whose father James is listed as a farmer of Westham. After this =
entry=20
they dissapear to my knowledge from the Wedmore registers. Can we =
assume=20
that they moved to Mark soon after this and named their next son for =
their=20
new home. I have seen examples of this were children are baptized =
Wookey or=20
Widcombe when the family have moved to these communities although it =
is=20
usually as a second given name. It is a great clue sometimes in =
genealogical=20
work. If this first assumption is correct then they are the same =
James and=20
Hannah Wall in Mark 1851. It seems most likely. Who the parents of =
this=20
James Wall and Hannah Popham are I do not know. Some of the Popham =
people=20
here might know the answer.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> As =
to the Mary=20
Tincknell I did find a marriage of one Mary Ann Cooper to a Henry =
Tincknell=20
in Mar 1872.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Also the following entry in =
1851=20
Wedmore at Bagley might shed some light.</STRONG></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2><STRONG></STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>31 </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>WARD Thomas 64 Penioner Ag. =
Lab=20
Wedmore, Som. B. Wife 47 Wookey </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>COOPER M.A. Daughter 8 =
Scholar Wedmore,=20
Som.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> A =
rather=20
cryptic entry indicating that a B. married a Cooper who died in the =
late=20
1840's possibly buried at Wookey. This B. then married Thomas Ward. =
I also=20
found a marriage between a Betsey Read and a William Cooper in Jun =
1842. I=20
think we can assume that this Betsey Read is the B. in the above and =
that=20
M.A. Cooper is Mary Ann Cooper future wife of Henry Tincknell. There =
is a=20
marriage record at Wedmore in 1828 between a Thomas Ward and Sarah =
Ganfield=20
but no burial record for a Sarah Ward. The designation of pensioner =
almost=20
always means Chelsea Pensioner so Sarah could of died and been =
buried=20
anywhere from Gibralter to Calcutta.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> In =
1881=20
Wedmore there is a Mary Tincknell age 38 at the home of one =
George=20
Stagg and his wife Sarah. Marys husband is not present but she is =
listed as=20
a sister in law. I know there is someone here at the group who =
specialises=20
in Tincknells whose name escapes me but I believe we are looking for =
a=20
marriage between this George Stagg and a Sarah Tincknell. This Sarah =
Tincknell could well be the daughter of Simon and Sarah =
Tincknell close=20
neighbours of Thomas Ward at Bagley. If they also had a son Henry =
then . . .=20
case closed.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> =
You are=20
correct about so many Somerset people migrating to South Wales for =
work.=20
There is one other Brown family of Wedmore located at Whitchurch , =
Glamorgan=20
in the 1881 Census. The wife Jane and three children are at home. =
The father=20
and another son would seem to be visiting Wedmore at the time =
although the=20
father seems to have avoided enumeration. See the Wedmore entry for =
Alfred=20
Brice. I am sorry to say I have no knowledge of these=20
folks.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> =
Finally you=20
did not mention the Ann Wall that married Joseph Brown . . . do you =
have any=20
information on her?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> =
Best wishes=20
Faye and keep up the good work.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2><STRONG> &n=
bsp; =20
Yours, </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
=
size=3D2><STRONG> &n=
bsp; =20
Stephen L. Brown <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:slb2@ix.netcom.com">slb2@ix.netcom.com</A></STRONG></FONT>=
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> </DIV>
<P> </P>
=
<P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></STRONG></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C26594.75402B20--