[WED]Councel family
Mathew Duckett
wedmore@lists.tutton.org
Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:08:25 -0000
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Thanks for this Marjorie, it is a long time since I looked at the 1861 =
census and then not in detail. There must be doubt that Charles Latcham =
was at Westham Farm, the house could have been split but it needs more =
research. The only known cottage in Westham was in my orchard that must =
have been very small as there is no physical trace of it. There are some =
cottages that tend to be included but they are some distance from the =
hamlet (on the moor). One of the barns shows signs of habitation (a =
hearth and spiral staircase) but it looks more a byre with living =
accomodation rather than once being a dwelling.=20
Westham Farm was not part of Blackford Manor nor is it part of Blackford =
Parish, this is reflected in the censuses or at least the later ones (eg =
1901). It tends to show as the last property after Heath House. =
Blackford tends to end at Bay Tree Farm (Toogoods or Champenys) and then =
go on up Keyton Hill. This sort of pattern is not easy to detect in the =
earlier censuses.
With respect to the name Latcham, there is a hamlet of that name on the =
east side of Wedmore on the road to Wells, but was the person named =
after the place?
Matthew. =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Art & Marjorie Keates=20
To: wedmore@lists.tutton.org=20
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [WED]Councel family
Hello Matthew
I found this message interesting because of the reference to Charles =
LATCHAM.
In 1840 Charles is a carrier in Blackford on his son Frank's baptism =
record. He is then a butter dealer in Blackford on the 1841 census and =
in 1846 on his dau's baptism record. The 1851 census at Westham and in =
1858 same on son's baptism record.
In 1861 & 1871 he is a farmer of 50 acres in Westham. In 1881 he is =
living at Belle View Mews, Bedminster where he is a dairyman.=20
If he lived at Westham Farm in 1851 he must have moved to another farm =
in Westham by 1861 as he only has 50 acres.
And of course we know that John HAM was on Westham Farm in 1861.=20
Is it possible that Charles was on the 50 acre farm in 1851?...not the =
80-90 acre Westham Farm?
Was everyone in Westham on a farm...were there no houses not on farms =
where a butter dealer might have lived?
Sorry to ramble on like this but when I see the name LATCHAM mentioned =
I get excited. It is my maiden name and when I was growing up I never =
knew any one else other than my parents and grandparents with what =
therefore seemed to me a strange and unusual name.=20
Regards
Marjorie
Canada
At 04:59 PM 15/12/2004 +0000, you wrote:
Hello Lyn, I thought I would bring this back to the list in case =
there is any other interest. I am nearly certain that Jeff Councell is =
Eric Wride's contact but I have not yet checked.
The Councells were in Westham (hamlet) from the 1560s until at least =
1841. In 1851 they were still at Keyton Hill which is half way from =
Westham to Wells Way, Blackford by road. Their connection with Westham =
Farm in less clear. Hazel Hudson tells me that Richard Councell held =
Westham Farm in 1608 but that the tenant was Christopher Latcham. It =
then passed to Margery Hodges who was Richard's daughter and out of the =
family.
You should remember that the term "held" can mean ownership or a =
long lease by "copyhold" such leases where bought and sold but did come =
to an end if not renewed, sub tenancies were permitted.
In 1841 Westham Farm appears to be occupied by John Councell. =
Unfortunately the enumerator did not do Westham in a systematic order, =
covering the ground maybe four times. John Councell's neighbour in the =
census was Joseph Toogood. We know he lived at Bay Tree Farm which is =
next door to Westham Farm; what we have is a best guess. In 1851 the =
tenant appears to be Charles Latcham, a butter merchant, again this is =
an estimate based on knowing where everyone else lived. The problem is =
that Charles Latcham does not record if he was a farmer and Westham Farm =
was a comparatively large farm at 80-90 acres. By 1861 the tenant was =
John Ham, when he died in 1875 my great grand father Thomas Duckett =
moved here. The house here now was not built before 1700 and was =
extended around 1800 possibly as two dwellings but the interconnections =
are old and I suspect the "two families" would be closely related. I =
hope later to try and use the parish records and the censuses to work =
out who was living where in Westham from 1560 onwards. The hamlet has =
basically been eight farms for a very long time.
Regards Matthew.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for this Marjorie, it is a long =
time since I=20
looked at the 1861 census and then not in detail. There must be doubt =
that=20
Charles Latcham was at Westham Farm, the house could have been split but =
it=20
needs more research. The only known cottage in Westham was in my orchard =
that=20
must have been very small as there is no physical trace of it. There are =
some=20
cottages that tend to be included but they are some distance from the =
hamlet (on=20
the moor). One of the barns shows signs of habitation (a hearth and =
spiral=20
staircase) but it looks more a byre with living accomodation rather than =
once=20
being a dwelling. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Westham Farm was not part of Blackford =
Manor nor is=20
it part of Blackford Parish, this is reflected in the censuses or at =
least the=20
later ones (eg 1901). It tends to show as the last property after Heath =
House.=20
Blackford tends to end at Bay Tree Farm (Toogoods or Champenys) and then =
go on=20
up Keyton Hill. This sort of pattern is not easy to detect in the =
earlier=20
censuses.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>With respect to the name Latcham, there =
is a hamlet=20
of that name on the east side of Wedmore on the road to Wells, but was =
the=20
person named after the place?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Matthew. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dakeates@adan.kingston.net =
href=3D"mailto:akeates@adan.kingston.net">Art=20
& Marjorie Keates</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dwedmore@lists.tutton.org=20
href=3D"mailto:wedmore@lists.tutton.org">wedmore@lists.tutton.org</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, December 16, =
2004 12:13=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [WED]Councel =
family</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hello Matthew<BR><BR>I found this message interesting =
because=20
of the reference to Charles LATCHAM.<BR>In 1840 Charles is a carrier =
in=20
Blackford on his son Frank's baptism record. He is then a butter =
dealer in=20
Blackford on the 1841 census and in 1846 on his dau's baptism record. =
The 1851=20
census at Westham and in 1858 same on son's baptism record.<BR>In 1861 =
&=20
1871 he is a farmer of 50 acres in Westham. In 1881 he is living at =
Belle View=20
Mews, Bedminster where he is a dairyman. <BR><BR>If he lived at =
Westham Farm=20
in 1851 he must have moved to another farm in Westham by 1861 as he =
only has=20
50 acres.<BR>And of course we know that John HAM was on Westham Farm =
in 1861.=20
<BR>Is it possible that Charles was on the 50 acre farm in 1851?...not =
the=20
80-90 acre Westham Farm?<BR>Was everyone in Westham on a farm...were =
there no=20
houses not on farms where a butter dealer might have =
lived?<BR><BR>Sorry to=20
ramble on like this but when I see the name LATCHAM mentioned I get =
excited.=20
It is my maiden name and when I was growing up I never knew any one =
else other=20
than my parents and grandparents with what therefore seemed to me a =
strange=20
and unusual name. <BR><BR>Regards<BR><BR>Marjorie<BR>Canada<BR><BR>At =
04:59 PM=20
15/12/2004 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><FONT face=3Darial =
size=3D2>Hello=20
Lyn, I thought I would bring this back to the list in case there is =
any=20
other interest. I am nearly certain that Jeff Councell is Eric =
Wride's=20
contact but I have not yet checked.</FONT><BR><FONT face=3Darial =
size=3D2>The=20
Councells were in Westham (hamlet) from the 1560s until at least =
1841. In=20
1851 they were still at Keyton Hill which is half way from Westham =
to Wells=20
Way, Blackford by road. Their connection with Westham Farm in less =
clear.=20
Hazel Hudson tells me that Richard Councell held Westham Farm in =
1608 but=20
that the tenant was Christopher Latcham. It then passed to Margery =
Hodges=20
who was Richard's daughter and out of the family.</FONT><BR><FONT =
face=3Darial=20
size=3D2>You should remember that the term "held" can mean ownership =
or a long=20
lease by "copyhold" such leases where bought and sold but did come =
to an end=20
if not renewed, sub tenancies were permitted.</FONT><BR><FONT =
face=3Darial=20
size=3D2>In 1841 Westham Farm appears to be occupied by John =
Councell.=20
Unfortunately the enumerator did not do Westham in a systematic =
order,=20
covering the ground maybe four times. John Councell's neighbour in =
the=20
census was Joseph Toogood. We know he lived at Bay Tree Farm which =
is next=20
door to Westham Farm; what we have is a best guess. In 1851 the =
tenant=20
appears to be Charles Latcham, a butter merchant, again this is an =
estimate=20
based on knowing where everyone else lived. The problem is that =
Charles=20
Latcham does not record if he was a farmer and Westham Farm was a=20
comparatively large farm at 80-90 acres. By 1861 the tenant was John =
Ham,=20
when he died in 1875 my great grand father Thomas Duckett moved =
here. The=20
house here now was not built before 1700 and was extended around =
1800=20
possibly as two dwellings but the interconnections are old and I =
suspect the=20
"two families" would be closely related. I hope later to try and use =
the=20
parish records and the censuses to work out who was living where in =
Westham=20
from 1560 onwards. The hamlet has basically been eight farms for a =
very long=20
time.</FONT><BR><FONT face=3Darial size=3D2>Regards=20
Matthew.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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