[WED]Louisa Dyer

Mary Thacher wedmore@lists.tutton.org
Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:38:27 -0400


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Dear John and Stephen,

Thank you both for all your help re Louisa Dyer Brown 1816-?  I have =
looked on the Mormon website and found that Culmstock is in Devon.  =
There are C of E records for St. James Taunton 1610-1910, and for Wilton =
1858-1901 availble on microfilm.  Possibly I might find a death record =
for Louisa there, and possibly more about her son and his family.

Do you have the 1881 Census record for James Culverwell Brown? It might =
be interesting to see if he had children etc.  The Wilton and the St. =
James/Taunton are a great help.  Many thanks,

Mary
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: John Hayward=20
  To: wedmore@lists.tutton.org=20
  Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 5:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [WED]Louisa Dyer


  I've looked 1825 - 1846 Wedmore and could see no marriage between a =
James Brown and a Hannah.

  John V Hayward
  in The Heritage Coast, Suffolk, England.
  john@hayward2.fsnet.co.uk
  Protected by Symantic's Norton AntiVirus
  Look at names on www.rootsweb.com
    ----- Original Message -----=20
    From: Stephen L. Brown=20
    To: wedmore@lists.tutton.org=20
    Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 12:34 AM
    Subject: [WED]Louisa Dyer


    Hi Mary,
         In response to your questions regarding the Census. It is an =
extraction from the parish of Wilton. This is a parish about twenty =
miles south west of Wedmore and includes besides the village of Wilton =
the hamlets of Haines Hill and Sherford. This area today has been =
generally swallowed up by the town of Taunton. The family of George =
Culverwell Brown are living there in 1851 although he was born at =
Culmstock , which brings me to a question for the group. Is there a =
hamlet or village in Somerset called Culmstock? I do know of a parish in =
Devon about 10 miles south west of Taunton with that name.
          I did get a chance to look at the 1881 Census this evening for =
Louisa. She is living at Park Street , Wilton which is the same Wilton =
as in the 1851 Census. She is a widow age 64 living on income from homes =
and her birth place has been transcribed as Clevrhom which I have =
retranscribed as Claverham which as you know is part of the parish of =
Yatton. In the same census I found James Culverwell Brown born Wedmore =
living at 5 Calton Terrace , Taunton St.James. We do have a member here =
Sue Hembury Kellow that I believe lives at Taunton and perhaps can give =
you some help with these locales. His wifes name is Fanny age 34 and he =
is a retired draper. This is the same James from the 1851 Census that =
was born at Wedmore. All I can say is the drapery business must of been =
kick in those days . . James and his father both retired in their early =
forties!
          Now I would love to to able to tell you that there is a =
connection between these folks and the Wedmore Browns but I do not see =
it. There are a James and Mary Culverwell living at Wedmore in 1851 and =
I assume that the Hannah that married James Brown , the visiting brother =
, is their daughter. Perhaps John Hayward or Stan Mapstone would be so =
kind as to do a marriage look up for you. Their son George was baptised =
Wedmore in Dec 1841.
          I theorise that the two brothers were partners in business and =
operated that business at Wedmore either after the marriage to the =
Culverwell girl or perhaps they were there before and that is how they =
met. I seem to remember reading somewhere of a Culverwell leaving a =
considerable amount of money to the poor of Wedmore or some such thing. =
They apparently were quite wealthy.
          Now as to the discrepancies in the 1851 Census. The age given =
for Louisa is of no significance . . . it is a simple transcriptin =
error. The listing of her place of birth as Chew Magna however is a =
major problem. Chew Magna is not even close to Yatton and as she states =
Yatton in the 1881 Census one naturally questions if this is indeed the =
same person. I know she was baptised at Yatton but do you have absolute =
evidence as to her birth there? If there is one thing I have learned =
from Somerset genealogical research it is this ; never assume that =
because someone is baptised at a certain parish that they were also born =
there. The corollary is that if a child is born at a certain parish this =
by no means=20
    implies that the parents were resident there at the time. Women in =
those days had a period of ' lying in ' before birth=20
    and particularly if it was their first child would perhaps go to the =
home of for example an older sister who already had started a family. =
This person might live many miles away and so the child is born at Chew =
Magna but never spent more than a few days there. When she is young as =
every child does she asks her parents where she was born and remembers =
this but as her entire recollection of being brought up was at Yatton =
she might well as the years pass associate this as her birth place also. =
There are many examples of the same people giving different places of =
birth in Census returns.=20
           I hope that some of this information has been useful ,
                       Regards ,=20
                              Stephen L. Brown           =
slb2@ix.netcom.com

                 =20
        =20

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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear John and Stephen,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you both for all your help re =
Louisa Dyer=20
Brown 1816-?&nbsp; I have looked on the Mormon website and found that =
Culmstock=20
is in Devon.&nbsp; There are C of E records for St. James Taunton =
1610-1910, and=20
for Wilton&nbsp;1858-1901 availble on microfilm.&nbsp; Possibly I might =
find a=20
death record for Louisa there, and possibly more about her son and his=20
family.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Do you have the 1881 Census record for =
James=20
Culverwell Brown? It might be interesting to see if he had children =
etc.&nbsp;=20
The Wilton and the St. James/Taunton are a great help.&nbsp; Many=20
thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mary</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Djohn@hayward2.fsnet.co.uk=20
  href=3D"mailto:john@hayward2.fsnet.co.uk">John Hayward</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dwedmore@lists.tutton.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:wedmore@lists.tutton.org">wedmore@lists.tutton.org</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 14, =
2002 5:09=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [WED]Louisa =
Dyer</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've looked 1825 - 1846 Wedmore and =
could see no=20
  marriage between a James Brown and a Hannah.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>John V Hayward<BR>in The Heritage Coast, Suffolk, England.<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:john@hayward2.fsnet.co.uk">john@hayward2.fsnet.co.uk</A><B=
R>Protected=20
  by Symantic's Norton AntiVirus<BR>Look at names on <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.rootsweb.com">www.rootsweb.com</A></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3Dslb2@ix.netcom.com =
href=3D"mailto:slb2@ix.netcom.com">Stephen L.=20
    Brown</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dwedmore@lists.tutton.org=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:wedmore@lists.tutton.org">wedmore@lists.tutton.org</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 14, =
2002=20
    12:34 AM</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [WED]Louisa =
Dyer</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>Hi =
Mary,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <STRONG>In =
response to=20
    your questions regarding the Census. It is an extraction from the =
parish of=20
    Wilton. This is a parish about twenty miles south west of Wedmore =
and=20
    includes besides the village of Wilton the hamlets of Haines Hill =
and=20
    Sherford. This area today has been generally swallowed up by the =
town of=20
    Taunton. The family of George Culverwell Brown are living there in =
1851=20
    although he was born at Culmstock , which brings me to a question =
for the=20
    group. Is there a hamlet or village in Somerset called Culmstock? I =
do know=20
    of a parish in Devon about 10 miles south west of=20
    Taunton</STRONG></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> with =
that=20
    name.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><STRONG><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I did=20
    get a chance to look at the 1881 Census this evening for Louisa. She =
is=20
    living at Park Street , Wilton which is the same Wilton as in the =
1851=20
    Census. She is a widow age 64 living on income from homes and her =
birth=20
    place has been transcribed as Clevrhom which I have retranscribed as =

    Claverham which as you know is part&nbsp;of the parish of Yatton. In =
the=20
    same census I found James Culverwell Brown born Wedmore living =
at&nbsp;5=20
    Calton Terrace , Taunton St.James. We do have a member here Sue =
Hembury=20
    Kellow that I believe lives at Taunton and perhaps can give you some =
help=20
    with these locales. His wifes name is Fanny age 34 and he is a =
retired=20
    draper. This is the same James from the 1851 Census that was born at =

    Wedmore. All I can say is the drapery business must of been kick in =
those=20
    days . . James and his father both retired in their early=20
    forties!</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Now I=20
    would love to to able to tell you that there is a connection between =
these=20
    folks and the Wedmore Browns but I do not see it. There are a James =
and Mary=20
    Culverwell living at Wedmore in 1851 and I assume that the Hannah =
that=20
    married James Brown , the visiting brother , is their daughter. =
Perhaps John=20
    Hayward or Stan Mapstone would be so kind as to do a marriage look =
up for=20
    you. Their son George was baptised Wedmore in Dec=20
1841.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I=20
    theorise that the two brothers were partners in business and =
operated that=20
    business at Wedmore either after the marriage to the Culverwell girl =
or=20
    perhaps they were there before and that is how they met. I seem to =
remember=20
    reading somewhere of a Culverwell leaving a considerable amount of =
money to=20
    the poor of Wedmore or some such thing. They apparently were quite=20
    wealthy.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Now as=20
    to the discrepancies in the 1851 Census. The age given for Louisa is =
of no=20
    significance . . . it is a simple transcriptin error. The listing of =
her=20
    place of birth as Chew Magna however is a major problem. Chew Magna =
is not=20
    even close to Yatton and as she states Yatton in&nbsp;the 1881 =
Census one=20
    naturally questions if this is indeed the same person. I know she =
was=20
    baptised at Yatton but do you have absolute evidence as to her birth =
there?=20
    If there is one thing I have learned from Somerset genealogical =
research it=20
    is this ; never assume that because someone is baptised at a certain =
parish=20
    that they were also born there. The corollary is that if a child is =
born at=20
    a certain parish this by no means </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>implies that the parents =
were resident=20
    there at the time. Women in those days had a period of ' lying in ' =
before=20
    birth </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>and particularly if it was =
their first=20
    child would perhaps go to the home of for example an older sister =
who=20
    already had started a family. This person might live many miles away =
and so=20
    the child is born at Chew Magna but never spent more than a few days =
there.=20
    When she is young as every child does she asks her parents where she =
was=20
    born and</STRONG></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG> =
remembers this but=20
    as her entire recollection of being brought up was at Yatton she =
might well=20
    as the years pass associate this as her birth place also. There are =
many=20
    examples of the same people giving different places of birth in =
Census=20
    returns. </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I=20
    hope that some of this information has been useful =
,</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
    =
size=3D2><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    Regards , </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
    =
size=3D2><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    Stephen L. =
Brown&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    <A=20
    =
href=3D"mailto:slb2@ix.netcom.com">slb2@ix.netcom.com</A></STRONG></FONT>=
</DIV>
    <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
    =
size=3D2><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    </STRONG></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><STRONG>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
    </STRONG></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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